Under Pressure: Burnout, Late Nights, and Humanizing RCM

Cale: Hey, Mindy, let's give a little lead in here to the people, the three or four people like Coran and Rebecca and and Crystal and the folks who might look at this one of these days. we're taking our huh? What? The fan, that's right. We're taking we're taking our shot at what we're calling our podcast. We're calling it now that I know. And the the whole point of this podcast is to I is to talk about a husband and a wife team who sat. Mindy

Corbett: The fan. The fan.

Cale: 20 feet from each other for six years before we realized that we were doing much of the same work, many of the same things, just in different places. and so we s we've had several people who said you two should do a podcast. So we're gonna give that a shot and see if anybody anybody gets anything out of it, anybody listens. You know, the the whole f the whole name of now that I know comes from a story Mindy told me coming back from work one day back before COVID. Where she had a a team member of hers that was learning on the fly how to work in the office. She was getting into people's drawers or she was leaving early because she thought her work was done. And every time Mindy, as her leader, would counsel her and tell her that's not how these things work, she'd say, well, now that I know. and so that to me, that always drew that always made me laugh, Mindy, when you told me that story. And I feel like that Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cale: Whole title applies to you and me as well. Now that we know what the other person is doing, whether it's our jobs, you know, our customers, you know, ourselves, we sit close and yet we're you know we're separated all the time. And so this whole podcast is just us at any given time talking about the jobs, our relationship, our customers, us, ourselves, you know, and just some kind of Mindy

Corbett: Mm.

Cale: hopefully something that makes sense for anybody but us. we think that there is a a need out there for people to be real and to share how they got to where they are, let's say in business, but show that human side or the cat side as she walks behind you. She may want out. But so before we go any further, would you like to add anything to the first few minutes of the first podcast? Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yep, I think that that pretty much covers it. I mean, we like you said, we've we've been sitting across from each other, you know, literally, I can open my door and we can chat. For years, we've been doing this because we've both been the cat figured out how to open the door by herself. we've we've been working both of us have been w working remotely for a long time, doing a lot of the same things and not realizing it and trying to lead teams of people who, you know, were a little bit cle

Cale: Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: unclear sometimes on what their role was and and now that I know really plays into that because there's a lot of things people don't know or don't understand that we as, you know, and I'm gonna play the Gen X card, we as Gen Xers, we grew up just kind of learning on the fly and having to pick up on our own and sort of just inherently knew it was just that kind of implied knowledge, right? And these the some of the Some of the younger kids, I shouldn't call them kids, they're adults, but some of the younger generations are coming in and they didn't have that, hey, learn on the fly feral upbringing that we had. And so there's things that they just don't know. And our job as leaders is to instill that knowledge in them so that they can be successful and they can go out there and understand that, you know, this is these are things that you just have to understand in the workplace.

Cale: Right, right. Mindy

Corbett: and things that will help you be successful at doing your job.

Cale: That's it. And maybe relationships like we're such models for any of that. so I I think what I'd like to do, and what folks don't see is behind the scenes how long it took us to get prepared just to get to this place where the microphones worked and we knew what we were going to attempt to say and all that. so I've got some notes here over on the side. I just want to kind of we'll follow just some beats as I as I've heard someone call it once, just to kind of lay out Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. yeah, I mean.

Cale: Who you are, how you got to where you are, and we'll flip that script around for episode two, and then we can talk about maybe in three or four the us aspect of this. But so I'm gonna just start with you, among many other things, are an entrepreneur. You've got a business that you've stood up, you are in what we like to call that pre-revenue phase, meaning, meaning we're paying for it, you know. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Yeah.

Cale: so I what I want to do is I want to ask you, and I'm and I'm I'm gonna sort of take you through the through the journey, if you will, in a way that kind of helps you frame it maybe, and helps other people get a sense of who you are and and why you're doing this. So give them a quick who are you in the context of, hey, this business that you started, and then you know, tell tell us you know why you built revenue optimization and intelligence, if you will. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Sure, sure. Okay. So I have been working in revenue cycle for healthcare for almost 15 years. in healthcare for much longer than that, but in the back office doing revenue cycle for almost 15 years. And I have spent many, many long nights trying to figure out how to pull together data in a way that was digestible for executives and other senior leaders.

Cale: yeah, so s we'll start with that. Mindy

Corbett: through systems that were just not built to give me that information. You know, you're working through your EHRs that have canned reports, and that raw data is so inaccessible. And the canned reports are not always what you want. They're not rolling up the data in ways that you want. And I would spend hours at month end trying, days even at month end trying to pull this data into reports that were actually useful. And there were times when I was in the office at at midnight, yeah, eating cold pizza and drinking cold coffee, trying to actually get through month end to have it delivered by the right date. You know, we'd have to have to have that reported up by the the third. And I'm struggling. And so sure.

Cale: Let me ask you this. Well, let me ask you this. How many? So you are just this is just one story, and I don't mean to cut you off too soon, but I I want to kind of have have folks get a sense of the scale of this, this, this revenue cycle management aspect of talking about. Anybody, anybody in a corporate setting who is responsible for the numbers has has pain like this. Help me get a sense of just how many people you're talking about and the scope of this, right? Mindy

Corbett: mhm, mhm, mhm, mhm Mm.

Cale: even just in the healthcare vertical, let's call it right, you're talking tens of thousands of of people, hundreds of thousands, how big a right? Okay. And how many yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. sure. Sure. You know, I can't really give I can't really give you a number. It's it's a lot. Anybody who's working in healthcare that is responsible for that revenue cycle piece is dealing with this. So you're dealing with revenue falling through gaps, you're dealing with leakage, you're dealing with all of these denials that are coming in and you don't know what to do with them or what they really even are because you can't actually access the data. You're getting you're getting this canned information that says, hey, this is this is this is your number, but you can't really see what's behind the number and it's it's exhausting and it's frustrating. And then a lot of times you're dealing with an outsourced, even an offshore billing team that's handing you a report every month and they're saying, hey, your revenue looks good, your days in AR is, you know, 38 days. and you're like, well last month it was 36, shouldn't it? shouldn't it still be 36? And they're they have an explanation, but the explanation kind of is not really something that resonates with you, but you can't really get at why.

Cale: Getting better. Let's right. I want to build I want to I want to jump in on that and keep in mind that at the end of this, you know, when when we put this out for public consumption, we're going to provide links to your website called ROI That Works, right? Where you have put this concept into action to help people give them tools and and and Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Please. Mm-hmm. Sure. Absolutely. ROA that works.

Cale: means and education to solve those problems that you touched on just a bit there. so what we won't do is try to really deep dive too much into the functionality of it. But I want I wanted people to kind of get a sense of hey, this human being on the other end for years and years worked late hours and the problems themselves didn't really change. it's just you struggled through every month or every quarter for several years. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Cale: in a row like you're stuck in a loop. And that and that had impact on our marriage, if you will, right? This kind of goes back into a now that yeah. Now that I know. And the funny thing is, is I'm sitting, I'm sitting whether you're this is pre-COVID, you're in the office and I'm in my office, and we're dealing with again some of the same kinds of problems in that operational, you know, space or spaces. and Mindy

Corbett: It did. It did. I missed birthdays, anniversaries. Mm. Mm.

Cale: The other person didn't really understand or know what the details were. We just knew that that person didn't show up or was late or didn't answer the phone or was came home frustrated or whatever. Right. And so it took us way too long to ask just enough about each other without our eyes rolling in the backs of our heads to to build to get around that. Right. So we what what I want to what I want to kind of have you do is build on that idea that. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Mm-hmm, mm hmm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Right.

Cale: You know, you've got that pain that you know that tens of thousands of other people who have anything to do with revenue cycle management experience one way or the other. They've got tools or they don't, or these tools don't mesh, or whatever. In the healthcare arena where you are where you operate most, right? what are the like the top three pain points that ROI that works would help them Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Cale: solves. It's one thing to say, look, I'm working all these hours, these reports are hard. You know, give me three things that like this thing solves. So like and it gets them back, I don't know, how many hours per week, you know? Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure. Sure. So hours, I mean, you probably could save a whole person if you're using it appropriately. So if you have a person who's who's been dedicated to chasing all of this revenue, this person could be reallocated to something that's actually more a a better revenue generator instead of just chasing after low-hanging fruit. So as far as hours go, I would say one full one FTE. So my goal with with ROI. is to give you back that time. And the way that we do it is one, instead of wondering and guessing at your denials and filing appeal after appeal after appeal that get you nowhere, I'm providing you with denial tools. So each denial reason has a path. So they all tell a story. We have a system of it's our EDI intelligence lab. So you can go in there and you can look up any of those denial reasons and it's gonna tell you what the likely causes are, give you some an action plan, appeal tips, prevention strategies. So what you've got there are not just how to do the appeal, but you've got a workflow plan. So you can build a process for going forward to try to to try to Build that out so that the next time that happens, you have an if this, then this scenario already built so that you're not chasing that appeal over and over and over again doing the wrong thing. Or if it's a situation where that adjustment code that you got actually doesn't need an appeal, you don't have a billing team filing a useless appeal. They're putting in a corrected claim and doing it the right way so that it's not then coming back again as a duplicate. So number one, we're

Cale: Okay, right. Gotcha. to number two. Mindy

Corbett: So number one, you've got you've got an appeal strategy where you can develop a workflow. Number two, along with that, you're not just guessing at your template, your appeals and what you're gonna say. If you're gonna write an appeal, I have templates that are already loaded into the system. You're gonna download that template, you're just gonna fill in your information. Okay. You're gonna Plug in your practice information, you're gonna plug in your provider information, and you're gonna plug in any of the clinical details that are appropriate, any policy information that's appropriate, whatever applies. So you've got strategies that go with that appeal. So you've got your appeals, you've got your appeal templates. Then behind all of that, anybody who needs it, I've got automation modules that you can license for your practice that helps you put in workflows and automation. To run all of that behind the scenes for you and roll up into a whole command engine where you've got an eye on all of that data and everything that's coming in and out. So it starts at the beginning with standardizing all of your data coming in and out. So if you've got multiple systems, let's just say you you have practices that are on different EHRs, or you've got an EHR system, you've got a practice management system, you've got a CRM. We can take all of that data. and roll it up into a standardized data warehouse. So when you extract reports, all of those field names are the same. The information is rolled up into one standardized data s format. Right? So you're not

Cale: Let me see if I can let see if I can yeah, let me see if I can understand that. I I wanna I wanna I wanna stop you for just a second to make sure I understand the the the power of what you just described, right? So the first the first pain point you described was hey, on the individual level, you've got let's call her a revenue cycle manager, him, a revenue cycle director, or whatever the person's title is. They are sitting down, navigating month in, trying to get this information in. Mindy

Corbett: Please. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure. mhm, mhm

Cale: Or in this case, you were talking about them trying to get revenue recognized, never mind reporting. They are there trying to get the dollars for their provider for the services that were provided, right? $57 here, $5,000 there, you know, it all adds up, right? It gets stuck in in increasing numbers of account receivable days and all that, right? So that so what I heard was there's that that single point or you know team point of benefit. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Right. mhm, mhm Mm.

Cale: And then you pivoted in number two, the pain point of getting into that larger ecosystem of where it really helps for reporting, where the data can all be in one place. that repeatable, reusable aspect is now writ large for the practice. And that is where that reporting value prop comes in, right? Because now you're tied to CRM, EHR, ERP, whatever systems you have to tie to for your practice. Mindy

Corbett: Right. Mm. Mm.

Cale: Right. And that's a small practice, a medium practice. You know, I think where you are trying to solve the, and stop me if I'm wrong, you're trying to solve the pain points for those small single practices, those those sm you know, the smaller group practices, things like that, because the larger ones tied to hospitals, they've got different systems and different enterprises of scale where at least at the moment this version of the tool doesn't play in that space. But not to say that we won't at some point. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Mm, mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I will say this, it can it can. It absolutely can play in that space. My that's not really my target right now. My biggest goal is to help those smaller practices that are dealing with this and they just don't have the resources to be able to get those enterprise level tools that some of those bigger bigger groups do. However, if there's an enterprise group that doesn't have that, we absolutely can't help them because this these automation modules are above and beyond anything that you would have from your your standard EHR. They go way beyond what they'll do.

Cale: At a cost. Yeah. Yeah. One thing what I don't want to do is again get into a thing where I'm trying to sell the details of the thing. But the idea is that this tool is is the price points and the entry points are cheap enough for these small and medium practices where their per month or per year fees are s low enough that those and I've seen these, the fifty-seven dollar denials or the a hundred and fifty-seven dollar denials. Mindy

Corbett: Mm.

Cale: This thing pays for itself in a couple of weeks, even with those smaller dollar amounts, from what I've seen when you and I've talked about it. So you've talked about the pain point on like that single individual level where she's working till midnight at least once a month, if not every quarter forever, right? You talked about the aspect of solving the pain point in one level up at the practice level, let's say, right? So what's that what's that third pain point that that that ICP, that person that you that you Mindy

Corbett: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yep. Mm. Right. Right.

Cale: You know, you were her, you're trying to make her life easier, give her some time back so she can go spend time with her family, whatnot, or her hobbies, anything but this, right? what's that third thing that you do for that person? Mindy

Corbett: mhm, mm Mm-hmm, mm hmm. Yep, yep. Okay, so we talked about the denials bringing that revenue in. We talked about, you know, this the yes, I'm trying to I'm trying to remember where we went. We talked about that. We talked about standardizing all the data. Again, the automation modules are going to give you everything you need from beginning to end. so all of that's there. I you know, I have within the tool the ability for you to build. So this is number number three. So number three, most of us don't know when we are going in, especially when we're going into

Cale: Yeah, what is the third thing? We talked about two. Yeah. Right. Mindy

Corbett: A new, let's just say we've taken a new job. We're a new revenue cycle director. We're going in. We don't know what the pain points of this practice are. We don't know where the leakage is. We don't know where the gaps are. I have a 90-day action plan. So this plan starts with a revenue integrity master audit. You go in and you do that master audit's a hundred checkpoints. It starts at the beginning from the from check-in all the way to the very end of the revenue cycle process where all those denials and appeals are coming in. So it goes from beginning to end. And checks goes through all of the things that you would do from the first time that patient comes in and all of those checkpoints and identifies gaps. And then from there you complete this 90-day action plan. And this 90 day action plan, what it does is it tells you days zero through 30, 31 through 60, and 61 through 90, what your process is to build a scalable workflow. to maintain to to clean up and maintain that RCM process so that from the minute you walk in until that ninetieth day you're there, you have built and you've built a sustainable model. And you can clean everything up and you can get it to where it's workable going forward and close those gaps.

Cale: I like the sound of that. Let me let me ask you as if I as if I had any experience as an RCM professional. my my question will be based on as if that were true. you talked about, you know, it, the system, that that audit system that goes through those hundred points. What is the what is the burden on me as the user to get that hundred point process kicked off? It it's it sounds as if it's automated. I'm giving it Mindy

Corbett: Mm.

Cale: food to to chew and it's doing its work afterward, right? So kind of talk me through the onboard the intake or whatever. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So the checklist, the audit is actually a checklist. So you can't really automate it because you've got to pull down files and you've got to audit what's going on. It would be lovely if it was. but there's really no way to to automate did everybody collect data correctly? Right? But what you could do once you've done it one time.

Cale: ahead. Mindy

Corbett: is probably set up I could help you set up a process to automate it for the next time. Once I see what your where your data sources are. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cale: Well there you go. That that's a that's a that's a segue I hadn't intended, but I do like I do like you're mentioning that. And that is part of what ROI that works, part of your part of your company, part of your offering, part of that, hey, I've been there, I know you're paying type of thing, is you do make yourself available, not just you know, you don't make just the what I'd call the SAS part available, which you do. There is a component that says, Hey, you can engage with me, you can reach out. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Absolutely. Right.

Cale: Whether it be through training, webinar, workshop, one on one, there's an engagement aspect here as well where they can reach out and engage with you, you know, for for different fee levels in terms of the amount of effort and amount the amount of engagement they need from you, right? It's not just this faceless corporate entity where they just Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Right.

Cale: throw a problem against the wall and pray for a solution. If they get stuck, there are Mindy based resources, team resources available. Okay, that's that's good to know. and I I do like that aspect. Yeah. I do like the aspect you mentioned where, hey, maybe like on the first time for that audit, there may be a little bit more friction than there would be the second, third, and fourth times because once that foundation is laid Mindy

Corbett: Right. Absolutely. Yep. I'm a

Cale: That process, the checklist is done, and now it is an engine. I think you used that term engine before. All of the things you're doing are meant to get the customer to the end state where at the end of every given month they don't have to worry about that problem anymore, or this problem anymore, or you know, as they're going through that those denials, they've got let's let's pretend for a minute there are. I'm just making up this number, there are I'm sure there are thousands, but let's say there are Mindy

Corbett: Mm.

Cale: 18 different kinds of denials. And you've probably got a there maybe is the top 20 that you see over and over and over again. If I'm if I'm right about this, once they learn how to handle denial code 14, again I'm making this up, 14, they don't necessarily have to go relearn how to solve 14 again. They may keep getting 14s from the insurance company or the whatever, but they now know how to always handle a 14. Mindy

Corbett: Right. Mm. Right, right. You know, that's actually a pretty good Yeah. That's actually a pretty good segue because I can actually show you w what something like that would look like. if that would Yeah. S yeah. So fourteen is a real code. It's not one that you see a lot, but let's just take it since you said it.

Cale: And if they forget, they can come back and look, right? Yeah, take a take a minute if you you can certainly try since we are video alt too. you can certainly try it. Hey, look at that. All right, let's try let's try fourteen. I like it. Totally unscripted, folks. Totally yeah. Mindy

Corbett: And and we'll what I'll do. Yeah, let's we'll just gotta go. Let's just go off script. So let me show you kind of what that would look like. And I will do I'll do a quick screen share. one second here. So here we go. So this is this is the website, and again, it's very it's very interactive. You can go pretty much anywhere here and get a lot of different help.

Cale: Yeah yeah. Mindy

Corbett: but what I'll show you is the code that Kael mentioned, which is 14. It's again, it's not very common, but it's still gonna give you some help if you do get it, because maybe maybe you have problems with this because you've got some issues at front desk or or whatever. So I'm kind of giving away what the problem is here. but you're gonna go to your EDI intelligence lab. So this is this button is where you go. when you first go in, this is what that looks like. there are some common codes that are pop populated right here that you can click on if it's one you get a lot. But if you don't, if it's not there, you can just hit lookup code by typing it in there. and then this is where it is. And what we've designed this to do is tell a full story about what the problem is. So the first thing you're gonna see here is the actual standardized description. So this is the description where if you got on the X12 website, so anybody who's in Revenue Cycle should know what that is, it's the ASC X12 website. This is the actual description of the code, the claim adjustment reason code or the CARC. This is what that's called. And then down here, and you only I can edit this card to disregard where it says edit. This is the admin view. And then down here it's going to tell you kind of you're going to give you a give you an option to choose what group code you see on your EOB. So it's either a CO or a PI. That's the old those are the only two you'll see with this claim adjustment code. And then down here, it's going to give you some information about what it means. So here's a key right here. This is a keying error on one of the dates of the wrong patient on the claim. Or it could be, you know, maybe the insurance company has the wrong date of birth. So what you're looking at here is you've got a date of birth that follows the data service. So there's something going on. Either that this is yes, this is likely a human error. This is a data entry error. So this right here is something where if you were doing that master audit,

Cale: yeah, so it's a human it's a typo human error perhaps that is causing a Mindy

Corbett: This is something that you would find when you're doing that audit that you're people are keying things in incorrectly. You have some data integrity issues. And data integrity is a big problem.

Cale: I notice root cause. I noticed some of the things you were talking about before. I'm sort of echoing and re reiterating the value prop that you shared with us a moment ago in terms of it's you tell them the root cause, the you mentioned the action plan, right? Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yep. Yeah, yep. Right. So you got your root causes, gives you an action plan, appeal tips, and some prevention strategies. So this gives you more information about it. And if this was one that came with a lot of remark codes, those options would be down here. But again, this comes straight from that source. And then we also tie it back to CH C A Q H puts out every year a core code combination list, which lists all of the cart codes and the the RAR codes that you can see them with so that you know what they'll be. So if you were to look at a different adjustment code, let's just say you were to look at 16, it has the ab it is always gonna come with a with a RAR code. If it doesn't, there's probably something in your EHR system where it's suppressing that field, and you would need to go in and actually work with your EHR to find out why that's why that field is suppressed. So when you scroll down here, what you'll see is An option to complete that story. So what we're trying to do is tell a full story of what those adjustment codes mean. So if you go in here and you add your RART code, it's going to tell you the rest of the information about what it needs. So in this situation, the pair needs to understand if the diagnostic tests include on the claim were performed by the provider or purchased from another source. So all they're asking is where did this test come from? Submit a corrected claim with that information. This is not an appeal. It's telling you very clearly this is not an appeal. This is a corrected claim. You need to let us know.

Cale: I want to ask you something here real quick. So what I'm what I'm hearing is, and and I'm hearing you say it's not just you're throwing in for this is not like an FAQ, this is not a just a just a reference guide. This is literally, I like the word you use there, story. If I'm a revenue cycle professional, and let's say I don't have this stuff burned into my brain like you do, this story, I need to know that second piece. Which tells me in detail how when I go back into the system and I resubmit that claim or whatnot, this is the piece of information I need to provide and why. Now there and the reason I sh the reason I asked that question or call that out is because I've really got a couple of questions in terms of the what happens today aspect and and what the your customer in ROI would do next. And I'll and I'll start with that what happens today. And see and you and tell me if I'm off here. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Right. Mm.

Cale: One of two things happens. They are they are under the gun. They need this revenue recognized. This person, she's sitting in a in a doctor's office somewhere under a bunch of UV light, and she's having to put these back in and she resubmits and they come back rejected again and again and again because she doesn't know what she doesn't know. And so it may take her three say her. Thing paid, great, but she spent 10 person hours to do it. Right? Okay, so that's problem one that you could solve by giving her the tools and the knowledge to frankly copy paste into her forms and to resubmit, right? so from what you've explained to me in the past, today what she does or folks, folks that she will outsource to. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Right.

Cale: They're leaning on brute force. They're leaning on some guesswork. They're leaning on fill in the blank. Try this, try that, try the other thing. So whether it's whether they're paying a person in their office to do it or they're paying a group of resources offshore to do it, the the pain seems to be the same. There's this loop they go through because they don't know precisely what to put in. Am I correct in that? Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. You're yeah, you're pretty correct. Yeah. So a lot of times it what'll happen is, and I kind of alluded to it early on about a lot of systems will suppress that remark code or it's difficult to get to that remark code, and that's this piece that that's down here. And there are going to be certain codes, certain denial codes that are not specific enough to give you the full details of what's missing. So in this particular case, let's we're look I'm looking at at CARC fifty. So it'll most of the time come on your EOB or your eight thirty five as a CO 50. So CO means it's a contractual obligation. And that means if if you can't get the money for it, you have to adjust it. You can't build a patient for it. And so that's why these group codes are important. You have to pay really close attention to them. that you can't just disregard them and you can't just assume everything is a CO because everything is not. so these are important too. But when we're looking at this 50, for example, it should have a remark code. And if you're working in a system where that remark code is suppressed, You're not going to know why it's not deemed a medical necessity. So you're going to be going, you know, you're going to be chasing your tail trying to figure out why. Why do they think it's not a medical necessity? And you're going to be submitting documentation saying it's a medical necessity because, but you don't have information to fall back on. But if you go back to the remark code, it's going to say, you know, there's something that's missing. So let's just say, okay, let's just say the remark code was actually the 60.

Cale: They're guessing. Mindy

Corbett: It's missing a certificate of medical necessity. There was something that needed to be submitted with the claim that wasn't there. And perhaps there's a certificate of medical necessity on file that you could submit with the appeal that would stop that appeal in its tracks so that the minute you submitted it, you're like, Yes, here it is. Pay this claim. Or there was there was something that was missing, like missing, here's this one is missing. incomplete invalid procedure codes. So there was there was a procedure code on there that was incorrect or something didn't match up. So if you can see those remark codes, those are a big deal. So if you're dealing in a s with a system where you can't see those, you have to work on why they're being suppressed or you have to pull that raw 835 and try to find it.

Cale: Okay, or in this case, the the better or is you don't fight the system. this is the Gen X in this here. You don't fight the system, you don't go scrambling to another place to find that that remark code. You come to roi that works.com. Mindy has done all that science and all that investigation, all that analysis, and she's built this database. She's built this engine that Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Yep. Yep.

Cale: constantly is updated and then by constantly correct me it's it I think it's weekly or monthly this is this is refreshed so that even though some of these things don't change very often, when one of your customers comes in and they need that RARC, it's there and it's current and they can copy paste. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Mm. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yep. Well you'll need to be able to find the RARC on the EOB to know what it is. So but then I'll have the information for you here. It has they have to provide it. Yeah. But sometimes you can't find it. Mm-hmm.

Cale: We don't deep dive too much there. Yeah. But but the idea is they don't have to it's it they can get past that suppression scenario that you alluded to a couple of times, for example. They can they this is a means. Mindy

Corbett: They would still need to have it unsuppressed. No, 'cause I won't be able to tell them what their arc is. So I wanna back up there. I w I will be able to tell what it means, but I won't be able to find it for Yeah.

Cale: Okay. Well Yeah. Okay. That's a good that's a good distinction. So we're not providing them a magic wand. We're providing them a means to have the full picture once they've gotten past that bear. That that's a good distinction. What I wanna do, I wanna kind of Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Yes. Yes. What I'm telling them yes, what I'm showing them here is this should have one. If you don't have one, your system is the issue. Find out why your system is suppressing that. Yeah. Yes. huh.

Cale: Gotcha. And that and that tells them where to go back and look. Okay. Let me do this. Let me so we don't do spoilers. Let me do this. Let me kind of help have you bring it home for us in terms of you know, you we've talked about why you did this, what this is at a at a high level and and and what it's meant to do in terms of helping the folks like you that spent all those hours for all those years. You're this is your way of making the world a better place. So maybe bring it home for the folks who are still with us here this first episode. Tell tell us why it's so important to you as Mindy the human. Let's pivot off of the tool and let's let's focus back on you to bring it home. Why is this so important to you? Mindy

Corbett: For me, the some of the biggest issues I ran into again were not knowing what the payers were trying to tell us and having teams that were not always telling me a hundred percent true stories. They were burying things underneath piles of other stuff where it was difficult to get to. you know, dealing with those reports at month end and just in general just frustrating. Day in, day out, slog trying to solve problems and trying to prevent leakage and trying to decrease things like days in AR denial rates and not having the resources to do it. And that what that I'm getting to that, yeah. When dealing with that every single day to got to the point where I just I couldn't handle it anymore. It was too much. It

Cale: What did that do to Mindy the person is what I was asking. I'm being I'm I'm Yeah. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: was overwhelming, it was frustrating, and I kept looking at it going, there has to be a better way. It can't always be like this. And there it shouldn't have to be this hard. And if no one else is gonna build it, then I will. Because this is what we need. We need tools, we need resources, and we need them all to be in the same place. We shouldn't have to go to 15 different websites to find answers. And we shouldn't have to fight with tech support at ECW or Epic or any of those places to get our raw data that is ours, that belongs to us as the practice. We shouldn't have to fight to get that. That should belong to us and we should be able to get it anytime we want it. And so I just decided that I can't handle it anymore. And I know that there are hundreds.

Cale: there. Yeah. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: thousands of people out there dealing with this same garbage every day that can't deal with it anymore either. So I wanted to build something for me and for you that said, screw it. We're not dealing with that garbage anymore. Let's make it easy because revenue cycle should not be that hard. And bringing money in the door should not be that hard.

Cale: Right. It shouldn't be that hard to get what you're owed. Right. And and let's and I think also too, not to speak for you, but I think, you know, you've got some professional and and personal relationships with providers over the years as human beings. And you've seen these professional men and women as doctors, as physicians, and, you know, healthcare providers of all stripes, where they are at their wits' end. They're fried. They everything they submit gets. gets chopped down by the insurance company or by Medicare, Medicaid, Meta, whoever, and then they get denied the whole thing. You know, they've got to feed their families with the eighty hours they spend per week, fifteen minutes a shot talking to patients. You're like, hey, something has to give for them as well. It's not just the person sitting in the office with the UV lights. It's the provider. It goes to the the heart of the practice, right? So it's a that's why you mentioned that Mindy

Corbett: Right. Right. Right.

Cale: Toward the middle of the conversation about how you want to make sure the entire practice information set is covered and represented. It's it's that human aspect across the board. I think the last thing I'll I'll ask you to sort of wrap up with here is the just again, I want to focus on the human aspect. The ROI that works and all that, there is of course there's an AI component, there's a lot of knowledge and and things behind the scenes to help you provide those answers. To those people that need them in those use cases and those scenarios. But at the end of the day, it's that human element that you were sharing, I think that I want you to reiterate as we as we close about the tool itself, about how as I'm going through it and I'm using it, it's user. The user is front and foremost in your mind. And I may be saying too much, I may be saying all your words, but I just talk about how. Mindy

Corbett: Mm.

Cale: This wasn't just a this isn't just an encyclopedia. It's not just a a wrapper on AI. This is human-based and it's human-focused how and why. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, I mean it's designed to yeah, ex exactly. You did pretty much use my words. It's designed for the human. It's it's here to be used by the person who needs it. It's not out there to just run your data and spit out reports. Yeah, we can do that. If you want the automation modules, we absolutely can do that. It but they're all interactive. Everything is here and designed for hands-on for users to learn and I'm not telling you you have to do it my way. I'm giving you tools so that you can automate and and create your workflows the way they work for you. And they're they're tools and they're here to be used by humans.

Cale: And you've got control in every step of the way un un until it's submitted a quote out the door into the next system by that person using it. So it's not automated where she or he lose control of the thing and it gets sent to the to the EHR without their permission, right? The the human the human is the gate, he or she is the is the central actor in the whole thing. Right. And I I I wanted I wanted folks to end Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm hmm. Yep. Yep. Yes. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Exactly. The human is always the gate. Mm-hmm. Mhm. Yep. Yes.

Cale: knowing that not only is there a human behind it and somewhat a bit about you the human, but then why you made it the way you did and and how it how it came out. So again, last word for you, if anything else you want to say about you or your product or how folks can find out more, let's let's leave them that. Mindy

Corbett: So just a few things. So my goal with all of this is to reduce friction. So anything to make life easier for you, that's what this is here for. Unlike all of those other systems that are out there, I am available for questions. I'm here if you need help. I'm not just gonna throw you a subscription and say, leave me alone. my contact information is on the website. You can reach me if you need anything. I'm it I'm not just throwing it at you. If you have questions, I'm here to help. so please do reach out. Third, what we'll do is we'll we'll we'll put links in the show notes. So anything that you need to access, we'll put links there. when you sign up, you just go in, you sign up, you enter your information, and you get your you get your access and you can access the system as soon as you've done that. if you want anything with automation. contact me, we'll have to work out licensing and the BAA and all the HIPAA stuff. But otherwise there's no PHI if you're just using the website portion. So you sign up, you get in, and it's all it's yours to use.

Cale: Gotcha. That's key to know. So the typical the typical journey for the person using it, the U most use cases, the onboarding is minimal. The again, the friction is it's you want that person to spend, you know, two, three minutes getting getting going and then they're ready to roll. And they're solving the problem they came to find the solution for. They Googled and they found you and they're crying and they've had it, right? And you're gonna help them right then, right? Yeah. Okay. That's Mindy

Corbett: Yep. Yep. Yep, yep. Yep. Right, exactly. And if there's anything you have issues with questions about, email me.

Cale: Yeah. All right. Well, hey, I this is gonna sound funny talking to a woman who's sitting ten, twenty feet from me who happens to be my wife, but I do wanna say thank you for doing the first episode with me, episode two, for those who decide they want to come back and and and be assaulted again. You know, we're going to we're gonna flip the script a bit and you're gonna talk to me about me and where I am and why I do what I do and and how I how I came to be the the professionals strategy and operations guy that I am. Yeah. So okay, thank you very much. Mindy

Corbett: Thank you everybody.