RASH of Puppets

Cale: for the seven or eight people and now ten, probably now that we've got Jeff on, he's some kind of a star. we'll we'll find out. thank you for coming back. We're here again, Now That I Know this will be episode whatever, I don't number them until after we you know, we put out. But Mindy and I have the true pleasure of having our friend Jeff. We have been friends with Jeff now since and his wife Jessie since like two thousand eight or nine, which is longer than it sounds out loud, right? And as I was talking with you, Jeff, offline before we started, we have we have known each other through thick and thin in every possible meaning of that term, right? When we met, Mindy

Corbett: be even thinner.

Cale: we were all a bit heavier and now we are all four a bit thinner, in some cases a great deal thinner. We've taken care of ourselves and we're still here kicking, Gen X forever, right? Which it's it's shirt it's shirt Friday. So we're Mindy

Corbett: was that?

Cale: gonna hear about we're gonna hear about Mindy's Metallica in just a second, So tell us about that shirt, Jeff. What's the what's the what's the reason we're seeing that shirt tonight? Jeff B.: Well, it's a little tie in with my with my my grok bot setup, actually. when I first started deciding I was gonna use grok, I like I like a theme. I like to go with a theme and I was like, hmm. I was like and I looked over here to my side there and I was like, right there, right there next to me, little statue. And right here I was like, you know what? All the recommendations say you need a chief of staff bot. So was like, okay, I need a chief

Cale: yeah. Jeff B.: of staff. So I have a chief of staff and I see Soundwave over there. Soundwave from the Transformers from my youth. I'm about in the middle of Gen X. So yeah, so

Cale: Right, right. Jeff B.: that was right in my wheelhouse when I was growing up. And I was like, well, Soundwave, that would be cool to have a bot named Soundwave. I was like, wait. And wait, if he's a chief of staff, he's got to run other bots. Soundwave had cassettes. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: So my grok bot setup, my chief of staff is Soundwave, and I have a series of cassettes named after the cassettes on the Transformers. I've there's Buzzsaw, Frenzy, Rumble, Laser Beak, Ravage, and Mindy

Corbett: Mm. Jeff B.: they all have their own little jobs. And so I'm basically running a Transformers themed AI setup from home. That's that's the whole purpose. Mindy

Corbett: That's awesome.

Cale: I that and so I'm gonna call that you you're welcome and entitled to as many as you want, but I am so totally gonna Jeff B.: Mm.

Cale: call that your Now That I Know, you know, or my Mindy

Corbett: Yes.

Cale: Now That I Know, right? It's not just you didn't just name these willy nilly randomly, you know, Mindy

Corbett: No. Jeff B.: no. These these are actual

Cale: you know, these have got Jeff B.: cassette names from either the cartoon or the the comics or whatever. There's a couple Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: that are were never seen on the show that I had to figure out what they were, but

Cale: And we're not talking about any of the knockoffs that came later in the eighties when they tried to r to carry over that that energy and that zeitgeist. None of the clones or whatever, right? Jeff B.: Nope. No. And I even try to keep them on theme as well. I try to keep them on theme with who they Mindy

Corbett: That's great. Jeff B.: are. So take for example, if as SoundWave is the chief of staff, if I I've got a bot that goes out and finds deals, basically, you know, I need a cheaper cost, which actually worked out real, real well for me last week. we sent out Ravage. Ravage was like a panther. He would pop out as a cassette. He would turn into a panther. Mindy

Corbett: Okay. Jeff B.: But Ravage is the deal finder. He's he's a prowler. He goes looking around to find deals. And those guys, that's why I try to keep them on theme as best I can in their name. So Ravage Ravage got me a better deal on my internet connection. It cut it in half for the next two years. And I was like, excellent. That that in and of itself,

Cale: Okay. And you didn't pay Mindy

Corbett: That's awesome. Jeff B.: that in and of itself has paid has paid for my a Mindy

Corbett: Should I write that in my ancient script? Jeff B.: My AI.

Cale: Well that and you shouldn't yeah, you didn't pay Rocket money to do that for you. You you you ravage you didn't pay him a bloody thing, you know, other just you Jeff B.: Not a thing. And he he's

Cale: know Jeff B.: he saved me more than the cost of my AI subscription. So I mean it

Cale: The Jeff B.: he he paid for himself just with that. I've got another one, Buzzsaw. Just the name of it? What would Buzzsaw do? Well, here's what Buzzsaw do. Buzzsaw, Mindy

Corbett: He's gonna be cuttin' some shit.

Cale: I thought he'd be cutting your bills, but apparently not. Yeah. Jeff B.: Buzzsaw is QA. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-mm. Jeff B.: when SoundWave sends out a Mindy

Corbett: Thank you. Jeff B.: bot to do something, what comes back goes through Buzzsaw. Buzzsaw says, nope, this Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: isn't good enough. Go back and fix it, kills Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: it, or lets it pass on to come back to me through Soundwave. So Buzzsaw is just like, no, it's the QA analyst for me. It's it's all on theme Mindy

Corbett: Gotcha.

Cale: I like that see. Jeff B.: and it it makes it a lot more fun to use too. Is I mean, if for me. So Mindy

Corbett: That's great. I love that.

Cale: Okay. Now what I will what I say, what I will do is we we tend to if we've got something fun to share, we'll try to put links in show notes and things like that. You talked to me, you talked to us offline a little bit about you giving us sort of a a tiny tiny preview about having some of this on X. And so if Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: you're willing to, we'll we'll provide the links to your share of some of these grok bots on X and let people sort of benefit from the the hard work and frankly the the the the sheer energy and joy I can see in your eyes from this. You know, it's one of those things we've been friends for such a long time. I've watched you get excited about a series of things over the years and I love Mindy too. We both love anytime Jeff is like when Jeff tells us about something cool we're like, okay, stop thinking about anything else. Listen to what that's right. That's right. Games, you know, over the years, whatever. You know, Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. We gotta find that. Where is that? Yeah.

Cale: books movies. So yeah. Jeff B.: Mm my biggest problem in life generally is basically the first draft of anything. It's what it's what I have the hardest time getting to. Ideas come pretty easily to me. I get ideas all the time, and my intention is always phone. I'm I'm now I'm into this idea. And I go over here. now I'm into Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: this. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: But the actual to sit down and execute on them and finish them has always been an issue for me. AI just blows Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff B.: the doors off of that limitation. whether it be in my Mindy

Corbett: Well, I like that your ideas make sense, because mine are really preposterous. Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: Well, as don't don't don't minimize we're gonna come to that just a second as a matter of fact, but I I was gonna how how do you keep and this is a serious question here for a second. I I have the same challenge you do of having that sort of inertia and the and not getting started on the big idea. AI for the longest time I think I'm getting better, AI only made that worse for me or a or amplified that everything all at once all the time. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: It it turned me into a French fry at one point Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: 'cause I just would not stop trying to do all of it all the time all at once. How Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: did you or did you avoid that or did you recover from it? You know. Jeff B.: No, there I I still do I still do some of that. Soundwave will tell you I tend to put he'll be working on something and I'll hit him with something else immediately. And

Cale: Mm. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: if he could complain, which he doesn't, which is a great thing. Now what

Cale: You didn't put that in. Yeah. Jeff B.: what really helps me is that I try to prioritize them and and this is what I tell and I've I've kind of becoming the AI guy where I work too, and I recommend this to everyone. I was like Attack the tedium in your day, the things that are the Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true. Jeff B.: most tedious and the things that most frustrate you. Attack Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: those first because you already have intrinsic motivation to get rid of it. And Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: you will do that

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: to completion. The thing that frustrates you the most, those are the things I recommend people go start with right then and there. If it's tedious, if it bothers you, if you just dread the thought of looking at it again. That's the one to start with. And that's where I started with the stuff that I've been doing, either at home or at work. And it's it's worked out really, really well for me so far. Mindy

Corbett: We need to find one that does dishes.

Cale: I love the sound of that and it if we well, yes, that would be nice. that is going out far and wide because that's just that is truly the Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. That is true.

Cale: perfect encapsulation of how AI can help you Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: and not cause you extra crazy, you know, right? Jeff B.: Right. Right.

Cale: I I agree. Now Mindy, you've you are up next. you've got that Metallica shirt on for a reason, you Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: know. it's not just because we're cool kids wearing our you know, rash or, you know, Metallica or Mindy

Corbett: just because I wanted to wear it.

Cale: whatever. Well that's it. But I think there was more. But if it's not, you know, if I'm you know, if I'm lying you're dying, that's fine. Mindy

Corbett: I'm still on a Metallica high. wanted to wear it.

Cale: Yeah. She went, she saw him at Jeff, she saw him at the Spear. She and Trevor. Trevor surprised his mom with Metallica tickets a f a few months Mindy

Corbett: Two nights.

Cale: ago. Yeah. Thursday and and Jeff B.: Excellent. Fantastic.

Cale: Thursday and Saturday. It was a a bookend thing, right? Was the sh second show was a continuation of the first, right? Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, yeah.

Cale: yeah. At the sphere there in Las Vegas. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so they do their they're when they tour now they do two nights no repeats So the second night is completely different songs So that way they Jeff B.: Ooh Nice. Mindy

Corbett: can throw in some deep cuts and still get all of the hits in there so Yeah And it was Jeff B.: That's a that's great. I love that.

Cale: They smart. Yeah. And that yeah. Mindy

Corbett: freaking awesome Literally probably in my top five shows I've ever seen it was amazing Jeff B.: Did you you went

Cale: Inch. Jeff B.: to both nights? Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, and Trevor got Jeff B.: Weed.

Cale: The yeah. Mindy

Corbett: us tickets that included, it was like an enhanced package. So we actually got advanced access to merch that wasn't available at the actual venue. we went to, know, so before the show, like several hours before the show, we were able to go and get pre-show access to t-shirts and different things like that. had memorabilia from their earlier shows. had, just some old stuff like some old guitars, some of their old wardrobes and stuff like that. It was Jeff B.: Wow. Mindy

Corbett: fricking awesome. And I was so close to James Hetfield. I could see him smile.

Cale: one thing Jeff B.: fantastic.

Cale: that that MVP package also paid for Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: not having to meet Lars. Mindy

Corbett: Yes, yes, yes.

Cale: If you if you had the cheap seat you had to meet Lars. See yeah. I couldn't know. Mindy

Corbett: Yes, yeah, that was an unfortunate consequence for some people, Yeah, I don't know. Jeff B.: as an aside, and you

Cale: Ha ha. Jeff B.: may not want to leave this in, but did you happen to see the Spinal Tap sequel that came out recently? Mindy

Corbett: Yes! my god!

Cale: We yes we did. We we watched it while we were camping of all things, dude. We were sitting by our fire and we had the projector screen. Mindy

Corbett: Was the stuff with the cheese the best? Jeff B.: I was just thinking of

Cale: Yes, yes. it's just staying in, yeah. Jeff B.: trying to get Lars to become the drummer of Spinal Tap had Mindy

Corbett: Yes! Jeff B.: me in hysterics. Mindy

Corbett: God, I know it was so funny. I'm gonna start with this Metallica thing.

Cale: and here's the worst part. We'll see if she's willing to say this out loud because well because the Metallica fans may actually watch watch or listen to this. You had some thoughts about Kirk and how he was starting to kinda he had a certain vibe now. Did you want to share that or are you keeping that to yourself? Mindy

Corbett: Well, let's just, let's just say that James Hetfield still looked like a rock star. mean, all black, you know, rocked out. You know, I don't, I got to be careful how I put this out here, but still hot. Kirk Hammett,

Cale: What? No. Mindy

Corbett: he was wearing sparkly shoes and a very shiny purple jacket. And he was very small, comparatively. So Jeff B.: Heard that. Mindy

Corbett: I was cracking up internally because he actually looked a little bit like somebody's grandma on her way to the flea market to pick up antiques.

Cale: Well they but the way she described him is I thought she was confusing him with Richard Simmons, rest in peace. I thought, right? I are you sure it wasn't Richard Simmons you saw there on the stage? 'Cause little sparkly jacket. I'm like, Well it had to be Simmons, but no. She Mindy

Corbett: No, no, sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah, he was... Jeff B.: Yeah well

Cale: said Gene Simmons I said, no, not Gene Simmons, Richard Simmons. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: was like, it couldn't have been Gene Simmons, because Gene Simmons is huge. He's like, no, Richard Simmons. I was like, yeah, no. No, he was just a little Yeah, so sparkly.

Cale: David Letterman's antagonist, you know, Yeah. Jeff B.: Kirk always has been kinda

Cale: But she got to avoid me. Jeff B.: like the earthy hippie type in the band though. That's that's always been kind of his thing. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and kind of shuffles a little. Yeah, he shuffles a little and his nails were done, know? Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: And I guess now she's like it looks like someone's Romanian grandmother all put together. who knows? Mindy

Corbett: of, you know, not quite as bad as Jeff B.: Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Steven Tyler in the, you know, his little, mm-hmm. But it's pretty.

Cale: Who looks like someone's lady grandma now? You know. Now you were looking over your shoulder at that. Were you looking at your guitar? Is that what you were looking at, Jeff? Jeff B.: No, I actually have a Kirk Hammett book down there on my shelf. He Mindy

Corbett: yeah. Jeff B.: actually has a pretty amazing horror collection. And he

Cale: okay. Jeff B.: had it all kind of photographed and put together in kind of a kind of an art book display called Too Much Horror Business. He's had a very impressive collection. So he's he's a very eclectic, a very eclectic person. Mindy

Corbett: yeah, I think I've heard that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cale: Okay. So see Kirk, if you're listening, we're gonna bring it back and make and we're not gonna railroad you the whole time. We're gonna see cool things about you too, you know? But but Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, he sounded great, but Jeff B.: definitely. Mindy

Corbett: I was just cracking up. was like, look at him. He's just like this little dude, these little sparkly.

Cale: But no Lars, you know, Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: yeah. I said something to her, I said, I said, Did you really did you really enjoy seeing Lars? She goes, No. She says, I don't know what the hell it was. It's like if he had if he had to hit a symbol, he had to hit it more. She said, I thought at one point they were gonna take the symbols away, but no, they just brought him new ones. something like that. Hey he was apparently like in the Alex Van Halen school of symbology that night, or those nights, know. Jeff B.: Hey.

Cale: the one thing she did say, all kidding aside, this is me saying pissing for the spear, maybe they'll send me five bucks. She was saying something that that played against what I had heard, which was that the acoustics in that room are not great because of the shape. But she was saying no, the acoustics were fine. You know. You know. So hard to say. And it may have something to do with where you sit, maybe, but Mindy

Corbett: I didn't, there was no issues for me. thought it sounded great. It sounded awesome. But it could have been just the difference Jeff B.: Okay. Okay. Excellent. Mindy

Corbett: in what we were there for.

Cale: Yeah. you were the first set of seats, not GA, s Mindy

Corbett: huh.

Cale: snake pit you called, right? So she was Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: they were she and Trevor were like in the first row of sitting seats, you know, on ground level, you know, going up the bowl a bit. Yeah. So Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. And we were in the very front of the seat. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And the computers

Cale: I think that has something to do with it. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Hmm. Jeff B.: have gotten so good right now, I'm sure they could probably do demo runs and and Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: adjust the mix in order to compensate

Cale: When it fires. Jeff B.: for the for the acoustics pretty well. Mindy

Corbett: Right. And it may have a lot to do

Cale: Yeah, yeah. Mindy

Corbett: with the fact that if you're doing a residency there, they have time to get your sound just right. Then if Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Mindy

Corbett: you're somebody who's just playing there one night, and they're going to be there through like Jeff B.: Right.

Cale: Load now. Mindy

Corbett: March. So it's not like it's, yeah, we found out after Trevor bought those tickets that they're actually going to be there over my birthday weekend. That he said, Jeff B.: cool. Mindy

Corbett: if he'd known that that was going to happen, he'd have bought them for my birthday weekend instead, but no, this is fine. It was awesome. It was seriously awesome. Jeff B.: Perfect reason to go again. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: Now, the one thing I'm gonna say, since I'm wearing my raft t shirt, just for the folks who you know would know why that's funny, I've seen Rush now, Jeff, twice this year. I saw him in in June in Fort Worth and I w drove down your neck of the woods. I drove Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: through the slog to get to San Antonio. That was the longest drive of my life. My God. It's so it's even more horrible than it used to be now, because you know, 130 is now a parking lot. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: You know. anyway, so it was worth every hour I spent to get to the venue there in San Antonio. Jeff B.: Right.

Cale: So I've seen Rush twice this year. it's unbelievable. Getty sounds like he sounded in the nineties I don't know if you've been watching or listening. he's got a vocal coach and it pay it's paying off. You know. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Excellent.

Cale: Alex is Alex Annika Niles. Holy crap. Yeah, anyway. So if you're listening to this and you're a Rush fan and you're on the fence Get your ass to wherever you can go and do it. They apparently are gonna be doing a residency at the Sphere 2 when this tour is all over. When they come back from Europe, the word on the street is they're gonna park it in Vegas for a while. And it's like, guess who doesn't really care for Vegas but whose ass is going to Vegas? Yeah. But we're Mindy

Corbett: That's how I felt too. was like Vegas sucks, but this is worth it.

Cale: yeah, but I'm going. So anyway. So I've this is one of those things where we have a little fun kind of pop culture and you know And I love I love callbacks, especially the Transformers and the the the tie into Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: that's genius. w what I was what I was gonna also kind of talk with you about, Jeff, is digging into and you said this earlier as well, using AI for human benefit, right? Whether it's your life, it's work, it's this kind of thing, all c all of the sort of callbacks to pop culture aside, you know, the the the transformers and all that. What is it that you ad that AI has been a most positive ad for you. we hear all the time AI's gonna take jobs and human and blah, blah, blah. What has AI done for you that you're really pretty damn happy about? Jeff B.: Yeah, and I alluded to it earlier. But yeah, again, that whether I anything I'm writing, whether it be programs in my in my in my day-to-day job, or if I'm gonna sit down and write something, long form, some kind of long form prose, the thing that always trips me up is is that blank page to start off with. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: And my favorite thing about AI is that it really just kind of blows that out of out of the water, especially when it comes to to programming because I have gotten so much more done on a backlog of projects that I've just had in the back of my I'd really like to do that. I'd really like to do that. I really but I've got to sit down and devote several hours. And you know, I already work a nine to five and I'm gonna spend more hours at the computer doing this kind of home project, you know, just clicking and typing. It's just like AI removes that that barrier. That's my favorite part of it. and it really is the the other thing that I like about is when you think about programming, if you boil programming down, programming is basically data structures and algorithms and some memory management, and it's the way you stick all that together. what AI and really the the the bottleneck there is how quickly you can type it and how well you remember the syntax. Well, if programming is just those things. AI can type it more quickly and AAI remembers the syntax. So you actually get to be more of an engineer. it can construct the Lego blocks and you can put them together.

Cale: I want to jump in here real quick and and echo or a and really dig in on what you were saying there because for and I and I'm seeing other people finally understand what you just shared there as well. It's not AI is killing the job of a programmer and all that jazz. If we take a moment and look at it for what it can do, we give it those jobs it's good at. Like Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: neither you nor I or she are accountants. We give those jobs to the guys who are good being accountants. This is really nothing more than that. He, she, it is good at these things you just described. You as the human are now freed up your CPU cycles are now freed up to think and provide guardrails and provide color and and contours to what is really just a series of ones and zeros running around on its own, if you will, right? you are yeah. Yeah, go ahead. Mindy

Corbett: I'm looking at it like this. I I spent how many years dealing with developers that I had to say the same things to and they never could get it right. At least,

Cale: Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: and it would take them months to execute something that should have been simple. At least with AI, I can give the AI the same instructions and at least get something back. in almost real time and be able to vet it. And it's 90 Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Cale: Eighty percent right? Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: % right, most of the time.

Cale: Ninety percent. Jeff B.: And it gives and it gives you back exactly my favorite part of it is the iterating on it and making it better and refining it. That's the part of programming I love. Mindy

Corbett: Right, right, and I can fix it. Yes,

Cale: Right. Well Mindy

Corbett: and what's not right, most of the time I can fix myself if I have to, or if I can't, I can say nope, that's not right, try again, nope, that's not right, try again, we keep going until it's fixed instead of dealing with developers that are 13 hours away that I don't hear back from for 14 days and know. Yes, yes, so.

Cale: I was just gonna say language barrier, time barrier are r are erased, right? And it's just the CP the amount of time the CPU Mindy

Corbett: Yes.

Cale: takes to chew through your ask. And the one thing, Mindy

Corbett: Yes.

Cale: Jeff, I didn't have a chance to talk with you about, I'm gonna say it was December January. So late last year, early this year, you know, several months ago now, ten months ago now, whatever it was. I I walked into Mindy's office and I said it's like seven o'clock. They were like, hey, we should probably stop working Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: and do something human. And she said Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: something to the effect of, Well, I I need to finish pushing such and such my scripts to GitHub. So she said two words in that sentence that I had never heard her say out loud, and she had never told me she was doing. She said, Scripts and GitHub. And I kind of went, You don't know about GitHub. She goes, I do too. And I said, What scripts? I'm not talking I'm not talking about your soap opera. She goes, No, no, I mean like I'm writing scripts for my business. I'm like What business? This little squirrel had been sitting in her office, her and and Perplexity or Claude or one of her other kudos to them. She had been on GitHub learning how to she'd been doing this for five years before, don't get me wrong, I don't want to minimize, but that scripting, she'd been doing that by hand and or working with her offshore staff for years and years and years, right? Five years going through Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: all that pain. She and Perplexity sat down over like say December or January and just started knocking this crap out and putting it in GitHub together. And I was Mm to say I damn near fell down. Right? And I said, I told Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I've I've

Cale: you Yeah, right there. Jeff B.: I've had a similar experience that that Mindy has had. I where I work, we're a Windows shop. So we use Team Foundation Server as our source control. we don't use Git or GitHub. So I had no knowledge. I've been working there for a long time. And so I've never really used Git or GitHub. And AI has introduced that to me, and I'm using it now. So Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: Right. You picked up a Jeff B.: yeah, it's great.

Cale: skill I was just gonna say, and that's the really cool thing about it. If you come at these tools with the right mindset, like Mindy did where she's like, Look, I needed to solve a problem that I've got. I need to remove the human part that slows me down, and Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: I need to remove the time zone part that slows me down. But Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: I want to take all this knowledge I built over five or six years, and I want you to help me recreate it, improve it, add to it, whatever. My own experience recently, and this was sort of not as not as I think quite as exciting as you two because it was more of a return to form. But I found myself curious about code again for the first time in almost well in 20 years, right? Because I I wanted to be able to see and know what Claude was creating underneath. I wanted to kind of learn and go, okay, let's see what he's creating. And you know what? Maybe it's a hot pile of garbage or it's too flabby and I could learn and ask it to tweak it. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: that ignited a whole new passion in me to dig back in and remember how to code, at the very least, enough to be a good validator and to Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: be that human in the loop that actually knows what the hell he's looping about. You know? So Jeff B.: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's great for something like that because I mean when I'm using it and it's and I actually have it as like to generate code for me now, it's kind of interesting because a lot of the times it uses an approach that I wouldn't have used. I have my own personal style preferences or structure pro pre preferences. Like let's say I'm doing a pretty complicated SQL query. I would be joining tables a certain way or I'd be using a nested selects and that kind of thing. And then all of a sudden the AI comes always like, no, just do it this way. Create create a common table expression. And I was like, I wouldn't have thought to do it that way. And I was just like, Okay, all right, yeah, I could Mindy

Corbett: No, okay.

Cale: No and he's like do you he do you Jeff B.: I could see that. And that does that does look to be a little more maintainable. So I'm learning from it as well.

Cale: And do and he's like, Do you know how bad your data plan sucks? No, do you? Do you know? Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Do you have any idea? Yeah. Jeff B.: It's Yeah.

Cale: Listen here, human. That data plan is trash. Let me help Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: you out. You know. Mindy

Corbett: You're stupid!

Cale: Now I now I do this is this was sort of funny and serious. I don't know about you guys, but I I think Mindy does for sure. I like to train my AIs to be snarky back at me. Mindy

Corbett: He does.

Cale: I tell I tell them it's like, look, I'm gonna go full Gen X on your ass. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He

Cale: I want you to come back at me full blast. Mindy

Corbett: does. Jeff B.: Right.

Cale: You w we're high school buddies, man. If I shoot Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: if I r if I fire I want you to return fire. Right? And it takes some time. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, yeah. He told Claude, Jeff B.: Excellent. Mindy

Corbett: he told Claude one time that if he didn't shape up, he was gonna go to Gemini and Gemini says, shots fired. Jeff B.: I I I have threatened to fire Soundwave on occasion and just create a new Soundwave. On

Cale: Yeah, that's y yes, yeah, yeah. And Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: you

Cale: now I hear some things that as as a quote computer scientist, a guy way back when it knows enough to be dangerous, you hear about that that AI torture chamber that somebody came up with that d I know that technically you're they're not torturing anything, but it's enough of a feat it's like, ugh, right? And Mindy

Corbett: They torture me?

Cale: and I've heard this enough now and I've seen it verified, people are getting kicked off of say Claude, for example. If you're mean Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: to Claude, Claude will like report your ass and and anthroptic will cancel your account. Seriously. And I'm like, I s I like that. And I'll be honest with you. The reason is, and this is where I'm getting into the territory that's not mine. But I have to think, Jeff and Mindy, that if I am some just total turdbag and I am feeding into the models, at some point that's gonna all that garbage that I'm feeding in and the other millions of smart asses do the same thing, I'm polluting the the model at the very least, and all the data and all the the results with with filth. With n that doesn't Mindy

Corbett: So you're saying don't call Claude a total turd bag? Jeff B.: It's it's yeah, I I wouldn't recommend it. I I wouldn't Mindy

Corbett: Is that immoral?

Cale: No, no, but you do set up a local model on one of those NUCKS like Jeff was talking about it and just get just go dolling rickles on its ass, if you want to. J you know, just go Mindy

Corbett: You lucky boy.

Cale: full just go full rickles. look hockey putting right, just go full rickles on it, But yeah. Jeff B.: One of the one of the things that that I've been kind of taking care of to look at has been just the ways to interact with and the way other people are interacting. There's a guy on X, his name is Brian Romel. been involved in AI for a long, long time. And he has an entire function, what he calls the love equation, to get the best out of AI. And it involves making sure that that the assumptions and and what what comes back is that it leans towards positivity towards humanity instead of negativity. Towards humanity. And that's what the love equation is for. And he's got a whole principle you can use to give to your bots. I've actually used it if I'm watching a debate on some ethical or moral dilemma. I will usually I will a lot of times I will put it into the bot that has the the Romel equation and Mindy

Corbett: Hmm. Jeff B.: just kind of work things out because it is supposed it's designed to be unbiased. And to really get at a core truth. And one of the reasons why I think that's important is for exactly what you're talking about. When you said training the models is so important. And if you're you're mean to them and you're abusive to them, this is going to be the kind of things that they learn. One of the things that Romel advocates and he has been doing for I think well over a decade now, he has been compiling. material from defunct companies, defunct patents, and these kinds of things. And he says the best way to train AI is to train it on material before the internet existed. Because all of that has been vetted. It has been completely, it's been c gone through a human mind and it has come out through human processing. Mindy

Corbett: Sure. Sure. Jeff B.: Unfortunately, what the way the a lot of the models are trained now, not necessarily as much so with with grok it seems but groc gets it as well. They do a lot of training from Reddit, which can Mindy

Corbett: I've noticed that.

Cale: Which Jeff B.: be a cesspool of just negativity. Mindy

Corbett: Garbage.

Cale: Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: I've noticed that. And one of the things I noticed lately

Cale: It's no four in Ink Chan, but yeah, yeah. Jeff B.: Right. Mindy

Corbett: is when I, cause so one of the things that I always do when I'm using AI is like when you're helping me write this, I need sources. I need you to cite sources and I, you know, I need the source material and it'll be Reddit, Reddit, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Reddit, Reddit. And it's like, I, and so then I have to go back and go, right, remember. Jeff B.: Yeah. Yeah.

Cale: Come on, where's my where's my library of Congress? You know. Jeff B.: And it's Mindy

Corbett: we can't use social media. I need real primary sources. Yeah, exactly, yeah. And it's like, Jeff B.: Right. The you're you

Cale: I'll even take Wikipedia. No, City. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: yeah, that's right. And then they'll come back later with Jeff B.: And Mindy

Corbett: a real source and go, you're right, this was bad source material. it's like, yeah, it kinda was. Jeff B.: Yep. Yep. Exactly.

Cale: Yeah. And I think Jeff B.: Exactly. And if you'll and if you'll notice so much of of that stuff that they're taking is now also being generated by I by AI. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: So it's now being trained on on its own. So it's like you remember Mindy

Corbett: and Jeff B.: that Michael Keaton movie, multiplicity? The copies of the copies of the copies, they never come out as sharp as the original. That's this is this Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, it just gets worse and worse and worse. Yeah.

Cale: Yes. when he's like licking a sandwich, that yeah, but that time he's yeah. Jeff B.: is the kind of thing that that Romel is advocating for. So we need to be training on on things that existed pre nineteen eighty. so Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: we get good solid human source material to train these AIs Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we need to. Jeff B.: with. I think it's pretty important. Mindy

Corbett: We need to go back to making sure

Cale: Well y I say I d I Mindy

Corbett: that our sources are coming from actual, real source Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Mindy

Corbett: material, not blogs, not old stuff, not social media, not, you know, that's the problem. Ask Kale about

Cale: You know, I wrote down as I I wrote down this is Mindy

Corbett: his students.

Cale: Well no, I I was just gonna say no, there you you didn't know this, but I that's what I that's why I wrote down on this piece of dead tree here. I wrote down that I'm gonna go back into my models and I'm gonna start feeding it ethical thought. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: I'm gonna feed it Aristotle and and Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: all and all that jazz because you know, I d I do teach my students ethics in the IT Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Sure.

Cale: sphere and we start with the foundation of ethical thought. We start with Kant, we start with utilitarianism and so forth. Well, if I'm going to cite those and I'm going to bring that back into conversation with my students, I probably need to prime the pump Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: with the original material so that I've got the best chance of not right propagating Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, we go full-off sports,

Cale: at best Wikipedia rehash or four chan leftovers, you know yeah, whatever. Mindy

Corbett: The onion.

Cale: the onion is almost as funny as the onion, you know. Mindy

Corbett: You Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: But Jeff B.: I have I've created basically a stoic mentor that has been loaded up with the public domain available

Cale: Yes, I'm glad you mentioned that. Jeff B.: stuff of Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, Epictetus, all of the public Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love that.

Cale: Yes. Jeff B.: domain translations of it. When I'm

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: going through something, you know, if there's some kind of conflict, I I was like, I could use some advice here. It's basically a stoic advisor I can consult. I made Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: that a skill in Grok that I can just refer to.

Cale: I am so glad you mentioned that because I as was talking about ethical thought, I totally blitzed over the stoicism aspect that that you've lived and shared with us for for years and years. I have to think that as that person who really embraces stoicism, it has to be very helpful. You're like, look, you've got a you've got a strong foundation and that stuff and you've practiced it, but it's one of those things that's like, man, I really can't get my head around this or I really need something extra. You can go find that pure. Quick hit of stoic goodness, straight to the vein, if you will, right? Without any yeah. Jeff B.: Yep. Yep. Yep. And there are plenty of stoic commentators out there, but I'd rather get it from the source. You know, I you know, instead of filtered Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: Yeah, yeah. Now Jeff B.: through some other through some other influencer with their own with their own agendas. I mean even if Mindy

Corbett: I agree. Jeff B.: they try to keep that out, it it still it still bleeds through. But I s I thought it was important to try to get it. Mindy

Corbett: I agree. I gotta be careful what sites I'm on anyway, because I kill people. Jeff B.: You are

Cale: So she yeah, she's the one who thinks that every time she Wikipedia somebody they die like Greg Allman. You know, she thinks she killed the Almonds Jeff B.: no. no.

Cale: and she killed Sonny Bono or she killed so and so. She Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yeah.

Cale: now, how about this? She is so superstitious, she had to make sure that Betty White was good and dead before she checked. Betty White was dead. No. Jeff B.: Right. Did you look up Dolly Parton recently? Okay. Mindy

Corbett: I did not and that I was so worried about that because Taylor texted me and she said, Mom, Dolly Parton died.

Cale: Our daughter, yeah, yeah. Jeff B.: Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: She said, and Jack just asked me if you had been on Wikipedia. And I was like, no, and I did not need to hear about Dolly that way. Because that woman was a national

Cale: yeah, her yeah, yeah, our son in law, right? Yeah. Thanks, Jack. Yeah, yeah. He's Mindy

Corbett: treasure.

Cale: You know how you know how s people will have spirit animals, right? Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: Jack is Mindy's spirit hedgehog. Mindy

Corbett: He's my spia. Jeff B.: Uh-huh. Mindy

Corbett: I got him a t-shirt that says I'm

Cale: He's he's cut Mindy

Corbett: my my mother-in-law's favorite child. Jeff B.: Ha ha ha

Cale: He is he is he is equal parts cuddly and prickly all at the same time. He is her self appointed Mindy

Corbett: I love him. Jeff B.: Okay.

Cale: he is her self appointed guardian. Mindy

Corbett: Yes. Jeff B.: That's cute.

Cale: tells her how how life should be and how she can how she can be you know safe. He like he wouldn't let her drive home. She she ha was really tired one night. She was gonna drive home or something and he's like, Mindy, you're not leaving this house. I'm not letting you leave. You're not driving home. I don't want you driving right. You need to stay here. Jeff B.: Ha ha Mindy

Corbett: He says, I cannot in good conscience let you do that. You need to stay here. I was like, I don't have meds for tomorrow. He said, I would rather you drive home

Cale: So she stayed in Austin an extra night. Yeah, she stayed yeah. Mindy

Corbett: unmedicated than tired. Jeff B.: Hm.

Cale: Yeah. So now this is a horrible segue, Jeff, but I'm it's I'm gonna do it anyway. So we talked about internet, we talked about AI, we talked about, things that that we have joy from. I would love for you to pick up that binder that we were talking about earlier before pre-show. Talk to us about this binder, man. I think people who watch this thing, listen to this thing, need to hear about the binder, and there are no women in it. It's not a binder of anything binderful Mindy

Corbett: binders full of women here.

Cale: of women, none of that, right? It's Jeff B.: All the Gen Gen Xers

Cale: It's a binderful love. Jeff B.: and and Millennials out there will will know what this is. Anyone else will be

Cale: Yes, it it is gonna say Jeff B.: like, god, what is that? These are C Mindy

Corbett: What is that? Jeff B.: Ds, kids. Yes.

Cale: It's not an eight track, it's not one of those not one of those nog to hide eight-track cartridge b Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: boxes what our dads used to have in their trucks. It's none of that, right? Jeff B.: These are these are burned CDs. That's what we Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: used to call burned CDs, C D Rs. So yeah, that.

Cale: C D E Rs maybe even. Yeah, yeah. Right. Right. Right. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, they used to play music and stuff back in the old days, back in the 1900s. Jeff B.: Yeah back in college.

Cale: He by the way, yeah. He has a one hundred years of prison in his hands right there if like old whole Nester or R I A deal got a hold of him, right? But yeah. Mindy

Corbett: All right, that's it. The lead in to this show needs to be Folsom Prison Blues.

Cale: I'm down we're down. We're down. Tell us about those there's a some history with those things, Yeah. Jeff B.: I've been carting these CDs around for over 25 years. a friend of mine in college said, Hey, I've got these on disc. Do you want this collection? I don't know where he got them from. I don't think they were originally his. I think he got them from someone else. And then he passed them on to me. I was like, sure, I'll take them. I was in college. Why not? And so Mindy

Corbett: intro band. Jeff B.: for 25 years, I've had these, somewhere around the neighborhood of 150 CDRs full of MP3s, just full of just various stuff that somebody has has collected and burned. And I've been carting this around for, like I said, over 25 years. And the most I've been able to do with it is to take each disk, and I did this a couple of decades ago, put it in a CD drive, wrote a Perl script, if anybody remembers the Perl programming language, to basically read the disk and write out the complete file name with the disk number into a text file. And I did that for all these, say, 150 disks. So that's all I've had for about 20 years is a text file with the MP3 file path listings of these 150 disks. If I wanted to find, it's like I wonder if there's something in that collection that if I was looking for something or if there's something I want to hear. It's made more sense in the days before streaming music, because now you can just go hear any album you want. But before you had a streaming music service, I was like, well, I don't have that album. I wonder if it's in that collection. So I would go back to it and I would look it up and see if it's in there. Sometimes I'd hit on it and sometimes I wouldn't. But either way.

Cale: Now this is now hang on, this is your Donnie and Marie collection that you were trying to flesh out, right? Jeff B.: Maybe, maybe.

Cale: I didn't want to I I had to out you. I didn't want you sitting there all smug letting people not know about your d you know thing for Donnie and Marie. But carry on. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well well, I let's be honest, you sh yeah, yeah. Sorry. the man's saying like an angel. Jeff B.: Okay, all right. Well just let we we won't we we won't be we don't get me started on Dan Fogelberg, but we will Mindy

Corbett: It was really just Marie. Jeff B.: so anyway, so I have these discs and I've often wanted to say I really want to just kind of get these onto disk as well and get them in a collection. The problem is is that whoever ripped these did not name them consistently.

Cale: Yeah. They say like Jeff B.: Some of have genre.

Cale: MP one fifty si or or they say C D one fifty six, C D one fifty seven or whatever. Yeah. Jeff B.: Well, it they don't even they don't have the disc number on the files. That's only on the disc. I had to enter that in one by one. No, these would sometimes they would Mindy

Corbett: See, that's so aggravating.

Cale: I gotcha, I gotcha. Yeah. Yeah, I know. Jeff B.: have genre rock, genre classical, genre whatever. and some of them would be name and you would see them in the file. The name would be genre, artist, album, title. Those were the good ones. The bad ones are the ones genre

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: wasn't genre wasn't there. Sometimes the album title wasn't there, even if it was an album. A lot of times it was just singles. Sometimes it's from a compilation, but they didn't give the compilation name. it was just, it was just a mishmash of files. So what AI has done, it took my text file of all of them, broke them out. I had to spend some time of copying all the data from these disks onto onto a hard drive. That took a while. Of course, there has to be some human interference there that slows everything down. This was it for this. I

Cale: Hm. Right, right. Yep. Jeff B.: took it, I said, here they are. They're they're each in folders based on the disk number. Go through it and see what you can do by organizing it. And over the course of an afternoon, this was grok and cursor working together. it organized all of these things, it put them into folders. there's folder, there's a folder specifically for the music files. There's a folder for the audiobook files. There's a folder for the old-time radio files. There's a folder for I've separated out the classical music section. And it's all wrapped up and it's all nice and tidy. And I was I've been able to take that, move that library to my media server here in the house, load it into Plex. I and I put it into Plex. Plex because Groc had found a lot of the metadata and added it on there, Plex had no problem finding it, getting the album art, getting other information for it. I created it under a whole other library and I have this entire collection now that I can stream to my phone if I want. Mindy

Corbett: Wow. Jeff B.: And it it took an afternoon. And this is something that's been on my back

Cale: See and it and yeah. Jeff B.: has been a back burner project for me for twenty five years. And it's one of those things, I said the T if you attack the tedium, Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: that's kind of the place to start. And that's how you get you get rolling with these things.

Cale: I would tease you, but here's the deal. If we didn't have AI that you could leverage, it would be another 25 years until you got it finished, and we Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: know that the foil on those CDs eventually breaks down. You would lose over time. You Mindy

Corbett: Yep. Yep.

Cale: would lose, you know, the the Sonny Bono box set. I mean, it'd be gone forever. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff B.: Right. Yep. There there are some discs that Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yeah. Jeff B.: just couldn't be read. I I I've I I already have lost some of them, but the but the majority of them I've got. I've gotten their they're good and they and they play. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, you would have lost the complete works of bread. Jeff B.: Yeah. Did you say red or bread? Bread.

Cale: Which would be which would be bread. Bread. Yes. Yeah, Mindy

Corbett: You

Cale: yeah. God. Yeah, go ahead, sorry. Jeff B.: I thought you I thought for a minute there, I thought you said Brit.

Cale: Yeah, well, no, and here's the thing, so Mindy

Corbett: No. Jeff B.: That's who I was thinking you might have meant.

Cale: yeah. So yeah, the the I don't know where I'm going with this, but this was I think this kind of goes back to the dead thing for a second. But I re was you know, Tim Curry passed not too long ago. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: And I wro I was telling Mindy it's like, you know Gen X, that hit me hard. Mindy

Corbett: I didn't kill him either.

Cale: No, you know, that hit me hard because he was a lot of things to us, Gen X's. Of course, I mean Frank and he was you know, all that. He's a lot of things to us in it throughout the years. But the one thing I told her I said is so cool about it is thanks to Rocky Horror, among other things, thanks to Rocky Horror, Meatloaf is immortal. You know, Tim Curry is immortal, so forth and so on. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: All those folks are largely immortal because of Rocky Horror. We've lost a lot of those folks and we're losing more on a on the daily. But there is certain something to be said for popular culture being something that still edifies the human spirit. If if you're into that particular if you're into Rocky Hor if you're into, meatloaf and all that jazz. I came across somebody online, I said I was in r I was in Reddit trying to shine some light on the darkness that is Reddit and I said something about Meatloaf. Jeff B.: Good luck.

Cale: Yeah, right. I said something about meatloaf and s Mindy

Corbett: There are so many idiots on Reddit. They're just so dumb.

Cale: that none of whom that I was talking to knew who Meatloaf was. And why it wasn't me it wasn't it wasn't Meatloaf, it's that's I tried to explain it's not Meatloaf, it's Meat Loaf, damn it, number one. There's a space in that name. These people Mindy

Corbett: They didn't know? Wait, wait, wait. Okay, back up. Jeff B.: Right, two words.

Cale: Well, hold on though. Remember these are people who you our daughter's friend didn't know who the damn Beatles were. So I mean Mindy

Corbett: Okay, yeah, but this guy was dumb.

Cale: Jeff Yeah, yeah, Jeff's like what? yeah. had like a picture, she had a picture of John she had a picture of John Lennon like near her desk in Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: her house. And he's like, Who's that guy? And Mindy's like, Okay, after I'm done having a stroke, hold on, do I smell burning hair? Hold on. Okay, breathing, recovering. What do you mean who is that guy? Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, because I had for a long time, I had that iconic poster of John Lennon in the New York shirt by the Statue of Liberty. You know, yeah, I had that Jeff B.: Right. Yeah.

Cale: Yeah, yeah. Mindy

Corbett: for the longest time. had that up. think I gave it to Ava, but I had that up for the longest time. And he's like, who is that? I was like, my God, this is not happening. Yeah.

Cale: Mm-hmm. And it wasn't even because he was young, it was just because his life was so bereft of anything fun. Or you know I don't know, who knows. Poor kid, who knows? Who knows? Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, and he told me I should have a poster of somebody good like Tupac. And I said, I'll tell you what, you go listen to the Beatles and you figure out who they are. And if you can come back and

Cale: At all Mindy

Corbett: give me a report on the Beatles and how they influenced music, I'll put up a poster of Tupac.

Cale: Well, as I say, now here's a kicker. The funny thing would have been is if he'd found out that Mindy

Corbett: Never heard back from him.

Cale: Tupac was if he'd have found out that Tupac was a Beatles fan, for example, that would have broken his little mind. You know, I I Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: don't know if he was or not, but Tupac had I I I was not necessarily a fan of his music, but what that man was was a poet. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: An unabashed, no kidding frickin' poet Tupac was. Right. So I mean, you know, yeah, yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: there's there's no doubt about that. It's you'd be you'd be surprised at the influences of a lot of those a lot of those guys in R B and in the hip hop. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: There there's

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: a legendary story about a about a a writer, a music writer. It may have been Rolling Stone, but I I don't remember exactly who. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: What are you doing with all this Phil Collins? Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: And I Steve was like, Don't say n don't say anything about Phil. And I was like, My man. That's my man. That's my man. So yeah.

Cale: What do mean? Yeah. Right. That's my man. That's my man. That's my man. Now, Mindy, Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yeah.

Cale: that that's the spoiler. I'm gonna go ahead and let you off the hook and tie. I was gonna test test her music knowledge, you know, because she's got that that that party skill with being able to tell you the band's, you Mindy

Corbett: It's getting harder.

Cale: know. It is getting harder. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: But I was gonna ask her. If she knew who the drummer was, I was gonna play her snippets of songs. And these would be drummers who are like session drummers. or this particular guy you would know because he's Phil Collins. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: and there's that sound. Phil Collins has a certain sound, that gated snare sound in the in exactly. Yeah, exactly. Mindy

Corbett: So yeah, he has that, yeah. Jeff B.: The gated reverb, yeah.

Cale: So I I had forgotten it and this is gonna get Jeff good and bad at the same shot. So he was the drummer on the Tears for Fears track Woman in Chains. And I and I had forgotten that. I knew it, but I'd forgotten it. Mindy

Corbett: yeah. Why don't you play Jeff some sewing? Jeff B.: Okay. Okay.

Cale: Well, so and that's what I was gonna say, because Jeff hates that record with a passion, I know, but he loves him so Right, but you're some but you're Jeff B.: I'm not a Tears for Fears fan. Yeah.

Cale: a big Phil Collins fan, so I don't know how you would handle the hurricane of emotion if I played Jeff B.: Well

Cale: Woman in Chains for you, right? Because you're like, there's my man, but my god, I hate him. You know. Jeff B.: Yeah, I mean it's y you know, e even

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: even your even your favorites some duds every now and then. It's just it's just gonna happen. but what about what about session bass players, Mindy? How are you with session bass players? Mindy

Corbett: You know, the session players are not really ones that I paid a whole lot of attention to, to be honest with you, unless they did Jeff B.: Yeah. 'Cause Mindy

Corbett: a lot. Jeff B.: Phil Collins is a touring bass Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: player, is a legendary session bass player that a lot Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: of people know 'cause he's played on like everybody's record. Mindy

Corbett: this is Randy Jackson?

Cale: Yeah. And I can see his face and I'm spa I know his name and I'm spacing it. the guy the Jeff B.: Big long beard

Cale: Yeah, thank you, Leon Scar. And he has got a fantastic YouTube channel. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: Yeah, yeah, I've watched. It's great. It's fantastic. Yeah.

Cale: Yes, Leland Sklar. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: and here's the funny thing. He'd looked like that. If you look at it, he'd look like that in the eighties. The man Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: the man looked like Darwin's skinny cousin forty years ago, right? He Jeff B.: Yep. Yep. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: you're right. But yeah, Leland Sklar. You you and I, Jeff, you had this was back when we still lived in Austin, you know, like right down the street from you. You and I, I think, had independently watched that Muscle Scholes documentary that had Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've seen it.

Cale: the the the female bassist who was like on every record in the sixties and she was never credited and I can't think of her name now Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: she took Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: Joan she took Gene Mindy

Corbett: you

Cale: Simmons to school. I remember Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: she sat him in her living room and said, I can't watch you play that bass anymore. I'm gonna teach you how to play that thing. And I remember he damn near cried because she was making him play it the right way and his fingers started hurting and all sorts of stuff and he's like, Okay, you you kicked my ass, you win. Right? Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: But this woman never got billing and she played remember this is back when Glenn Campbell was still a session player. Jeff B.: Right, yeah.

Cale: Right. And some of those people that broke out of the session biz. Carol Kane, thank you. Thank you. Mindy

Corbett: Herald K. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Carol Kane. Kane. Yeah, that's it. Mindy

Corbett: Okay.

Cale: That's it. Right. She's gonna get mentioned here. She played on like Beach Boys records for Christ's sake, right? Yes. Right. Yeah. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. She did. She played with the wrecking crew as well. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Yep, played with the ragging crew. She played with the Beach Boys. She played on what played with Glen Campbell on Wichita Lineman. Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: Right. Yeah. The fact that she was the basis on how many Mindy

Corbett: she played on the theme for MASH!

Cale: Yeah. The woman and she was a single mother at Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: the time. There's all this her Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: story is just fascinating. And people did not know who she was Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: because she she and the rest of the recent get credited, you know? Mindy

Corbett: See ya.

Cale: but anyway, so she's getting credited here tonight. But that with the whole the whole Phil Collins thing was where that started, because I'm like Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: I wanted to ask Mindy if she could suss him out and I betcha she probably could have. And then Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: If I'd have heard it, probably. I don't know that I ever really gave Jeff B.: He's played on Mindy

Corbett: it a whole lot of thought.

Cale: Nick, have you listened to a son Nick play? Jeff B.: Yeah, yeah, he Nick Nick does a good job. he o

Cale: Nick is good. Jeff B.: Phil also played on Plant's solo albums as well. He did.

Cale: Yes, yeah. Yeah, Collins had that thing where he kinda he back when he wasn't really hurtin' he broken down. Yeah. Drumming drumming is no joke, you know. Jeff B.: He's he's falling apart. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Isn't the reason why you can't play the drums anymore because of nerve damage? Jeff B.: It's nerve damage. It gives him what's called dead foot. He Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: he he literally can't he he he can't move. He he has Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: a hard time walking even now because he he it's like his foot is dead to him. He just Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cale: Was it the bass drum? Was that what it was? The bass drum pull foot? I mean, is it that or Jeff B.: No, but but I mean he's got nerve damage in his hands and stuff from just, you know, hitting hitting hitting the snares and stuff all and they Yeah, Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah, he can't hold the sticks anymore.

Cale: Because of the drumming. Yeah. Yeah. Jeff B.: and all all drummers get ear damage eventually. So I mean it just

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: it just happens, but

Cale: Well, Ringo and S has been Mindy

Corbett: I mean, that's part of the reason why they started doing the in-ear monitors and stuff, know, because Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: they didn't used to. mean, remember back in the eighties, you'd go to concert, there was nothing in their ears. They were just out there winging it raw, you Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Mindy

Corbett: know? Right. Right.

Cale: 'Cause they could barely hear themselves, much less you much less yeah. Now as I say funny, this is I don't know how interesting this is to anybody but the three of us. Mindy was she took her loops with her to this to the Metallica concert. And I think th they were in your ear for a hot five minutes 'cause Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Mindy

Corbett: yeah, I'm being called out.

Cale: she told me that the that it just it it just impeded the experience. I had my loops in it rush. I had them set to like that allowing in sound Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: but cutting out as the the the real the the the crush. Jeff B.: Right.

Cale: I thought it sounded better with them in that middle experience mode. She's like, no, I couldn't take it. It wasn't pure Mindy

Corbett: took them out, I took them out for Master of Puppets and then left them out the rest of the time. I mean, I couldn't expect, there Jeff B.: Of course. Yeah.

Cale: And then that's it, but yeah. Mindy

Corbett: was just no way I was going to be able to fully experience Master of Puppets with those in. Sorry.

Cale: Now maybe if Jeff B.: I'm with

Cale: you put it back in for InterSand man, you know. Jeff B.: you, Mindy. I would I would have been right there too. Mindy

Corbett: Right. Right.

Cale: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I didn't want her being prematurely more deaf because but I you know. Mindy

Corbett: Master of Puppets Live was worth it.

Cale: I I give you, I give you. first off s thank you for being here. We're not going to mention like details about your podcast because it's it's a it's a thing that you're done with, it's in the past, but it's been it was a big part of your life for a long time. Is there anything you want to talk about the podcast experience from the many years you did it and what you remember fondly and what you really thought was awesome, and then like what really sucked. I'd be sort of curious of that plus and minus. I know the answer Mindy

Corbett: what sucked?

Cale: to the Mindy

Corbett: I remember hearing about what

Cale: I know the answer to this. Mindy

Corbett: sucked.

Cale: But unless you yeah. I'd love to Jeff B.: Well the

Cale: and maybe a couple of funny anecdotes if you have any, but go yeah. Jeff B.: The good thing about the the great stuff is just, we we basically did a comedy show and just the laughs that you have, just trying to get something down and recording stuff was just was just a stare. That was that was always fun. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: the the the parts that really got to me about doing it the post production was

Cale: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: because we're using basic tools, you know, basic tools to kind of edit and when you do a podcast, we would get so off track when we were talking and socializing that there would be a lot to cut out, there'd be a lot to edit and we'd get we'd get into things and we'd We'd drop we drop a little bit of the the we'd try not to be we try to be pretty loose any, but we get even looser after all that. And

Cale: Right. Jeff B.: so there's more ums and ahs and those had to be taken out and it just the tedium of week after week and trying to turn something around week after week after week after week, it just it got to be too much. Now with AI tools that are out now, it would probably be a lot easier. Now and that's and that's what I did with my with the with the bots that I share as well.

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: it would probably be easier now than it was then, but man, it just really, really wore on me because we would record for three hours and turn around 40 minutes of show. And yeah, and and

Cale: I was gonna say it was a one for ten ratio in some cases, man. You know. Yeah. Jeff B.: when you're trying to cut down to you know somewhere between 40 minutes to an hour. out of three, already the rule of thumb on editing is is that you at least with video, with video we would we would compensate for it is if you're trying to edit a video and you want to get it to say 30 minutes, be ready to edit for at least four times that that length to get it done. It was yeah,

Cale: Right. There's a lot on the cutting floor, you know. Jeff B.: it wasn't necessarily that long with audio, but it could be. I mean we were just trying to get 40 minutes, but There were some days I spent an entire Saturday just editing a show to try to get out. And that was that was extremely frustrating.

Cale: Now I'm gonna tell you this is one of those things where again, without just without dining on the past any great detail, Mindy and I, I'll I'll I can't tell you how many trips she and I had early on back in our relationship when we got back together, where I we were listening to SFJ and Tobolowski Files and Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: dying from both, right? before we started the show, we we were talking about some of our favorites with. with your your your back catalog. And what I remember most more than anything else is knowing you like I have, being one of my dearest friends for a long, long time. I know that you had a I'm gonna call it a persona, right? So you had a persona, and Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Right. Mindy

Corbett: Thank you.

Cale: I would notice that there I'm gonna call it almost like a Jack Benny without the violin Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: skills. Okay? There was a bit of that sort of jack a bunch of some other things, but there was a so let's say it was that Jack Benny style where you're just okay, all right, you were just kind of We're gonna let the let the inmates run the asylum and you're gonna be put up on. And then I noticed it went from persona to Jeff is for real hacked off. The persona the Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, I can tell he's really getting irritated now. Jeff B.: Well,

Cale: mask flipped and the persona was still there because the man was just flat getting front. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: And there's no way to edit that out unless you edit out all the Jeff. But you know what I mean? There was, you know, Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, yeah. Jeff B.: Yeah. Most of the time it was a bit. On occasion, it was not a bit. But most of the time it's a bit. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: Yeah, yeah. Right. Jeff B.: I mean, if you're gonna do a show like that, it's already there's it's already gonna be at a minimum, it's gonna be an exaggeration of yourself. At a minimum, and probably Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: That's right. That's right. Right. Jeff B.: even more than just an exaggeration of yourself.

Cale: A maximum, Jeff B.: there's an old adage that's especially if you're doing comedy, you either tell a joke or be a joke. So Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: you have to be willing.

Cale: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: to also be a joke, you Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: to be and

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: to be joked on if you're gonna do something like that. And I I've always been willing to do that. So

Cale: And I think that's the thing too, I was gonna say, this is a compliment to you and it's b it's because you've had such a passion for the art form and you've taken bits and pieces because you do like popular culture like a sponge, let's say, and you've got your Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: favorites, but you just absorb it and you reconstitute it in ways that I feel like are unique. And so it's Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: one of those things where at any given moment you're gonna go with that punch or you're Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: gonna go with that flow because you've got something to refer to, right? Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: It's it

Cale: And I Jeff B.: it comes from watching a lot of Dennis Miller. That's really what it comes from. So yeah. Mindy

Corbett: yes.

Cale: It helps. Whatever, you know, now he needs to he needs to pay you for that call out. Yeah, exactly, right? Mindy

Corbett: think you're owed now.

Cale: That's right. He owed at least ten cents or whatever the going rate is. But I I yeah, Mindy

Corbett: Is he worth anything? Right? mean, really? Jeff B.: Fork it over, cha cha.

Cale: You know, early on in the show, it was such a it was such a shoestring idea that You had guys it wasn't like you all sat in the studio and looked at each other like Howard Stern, okay. Jeff B.: No. It was like us, it was all remote.

Cale: and it was across the country, right? You had guys on stoops at libraries and you had guys Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: at at at at pet stores and all these other sorts of things, right? I mean it's just crazy, right? Literally Jeff B.: Yep. Yep. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cale: all man, you know. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, I forgot about the stoop at the library until you brought that up the other day. Yeah. And I was like, Jeff B.: Mm-hmm. Mindy

Corbett: my God, yeah, that was, what's his name, you know? Jeff B.: Those were some pretty Yeah,

Cale: you can't fake that. I mean, yeah, again, there's Mindy

Corbett: you

Cale: a certain art and there's a certain persona, but I mean, Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: you don't make up putting a guy in the library in the library parking lot or the stoop of the library for the Wi Fi. You don't you don't make that shit up. That that just happened, Mindy

Corbett: No. No. Jeff B.: No. Yeah. He

Cale: you know. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: he he did not have a good Wi Fi connection in his house. So he literally

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: left his house and Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: went to the library. Even though it was closed, he was Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: able to sit outside of the library and pick up the library's Wi Fi so he could do the show. And we Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yep.

Cale: Yeah. And it was fall wasn't that a young y'all y'all record of that one in the fall of that year, I think, and it was like they'll say October or something like that. It wasn't warm. Jeff B.: Yeah. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: No, it was cold. Jeff B.: No. No.

Cale: The man was sitting outside in the weather that that's a dedication, brother. I mean that now Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cale: especially for what was largely a non monetized podcast, right? It's not like you know, not like you're Terry Gross Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jeff B.: We were just doing it for fun.

Cale: and you're getting paid. You did it for the love, man. You did it for the Yeah. So Mindy

Corbett: right? Yeah, and we still quote things from it. mean, like, I still, whenever I read a text or somebody says LOL, I still say LOL. Because of the letters, know, Jeff B.: Lol. Yeah. Man. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: or the text is LOL.

Cale: And there's a certain artist, there's a certain artist that we have in common over the years. We're still Mindy

Corbett: Yeah.

Cale: we're still riffing about his appearance on the podcast, our artist friend. Ill illustrator, comma, comma illustrator, you know, and you know, on and on. Jeff B.: yes, okay. Got it. Got it, yes. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, with the guitar! the illustrator,

Cale: I'll tell what we want to do. We're gonna have you back and I think we're gonna do it when we can bring if the misses I was getting I was Mindy

Corbett: Can we bring Jessie?

Cale: gonna say exactly that. If we can bring the Queen of Farts back on, if she'll come too, or we'll do audio, like if she only wants to Well then we'll do audio. Be it'll Mindy

Corbett: Yes! Jeff B.: sh she does not like being on camera. She she hates it. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, cause I love it.

Cale: be an audio it'll be an audio only. Or you know what we can do? We can test the ability to generate AI avatars in the reel. We'll see you know Mindy

Corbett: Tell her if she comes on, I'll wear my tiara. Jeff B.: Okay. I'll I'll I'll talk to her about it. We'll see what we can do.

Cale: I mean, you know throw us whatever sweetener she needs. If it's if it's audio only, that's fine. But we just need we need our we need our dose of Jessie, I think, really to to do this justice. So Mindy

Corbett: If the T-ara won't get her, I also have a witch hat.

Cale: And she may put the T R on the witch out and she can double down. you know, the you know. There you go. Jeff B.: Sh she would be thrilled just to see you. That that would be that would that would be that would be great for her.

Cale: this is as good a wrap as any, man. I d I truly wanna say thank you. For those who don't know, Jeff B.: Thank you.

Cale: we don't produce any of this. There's no production value as you can see. I Mindy

Corbett: Done.

Cale: think the best best prep you've got, Jeff, was hey, can you be on you wanna be on the podcast? Yeah. What do you want to talk about? don't know. You know, hey, wear a cool shirt. Yeah, okay, cool. I'll Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, yeah. Jeff B.: Sure. Sure. Anything. We'll do.

Cale: wear cool shirt and tell us about it. And that was it, you know. Jeff B.: Will do. Yeah. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: If we get Jessie, we should do this like Beavis in Butthead style.

Cale: Yeah. Now all kidding aside, do do share with me off afterward, I'm gonna let this sit and chew and bake and all that and I'll edit it later, but definitely hit me up with links and things. We'll get in the show notes. Stuff that you know, the Grok and Jeff B.: Okay. Yeah. I've got the I've got the the multi model transcriber, the a bot I share on X for for transcribing audio and it it did a really good job with your show, I thought. It it it handled that really well. It pulled it down,

Cale: It did. It really did. Jeff B.: it actually went and found it got your show offline, downloaded it to its own computer, transcribed it, and then passed it over to the other bot that I that I share on on X, the show indexer. So anybody else out there that has an old audio only podcast, or maybe they have a video podcast as well. this is one of the tedium things that I talked about, attacking the tedium.

Cale: Mm-hmm. Yep. Jeff B.: Sometimes people would ask, is like, hey, on the old show, what was that show where you talked about blah? And I was like, I don't know. We did like 200 of them. I I I don't know what it is. So I created

Cale: Not a clue. Yeah, yeah. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: the show indexer that would take the, you know, first the transcriber. the the multi model transcriber, which would transcribe them and then the indexer, which would go through those transcriptions and build an index th of of like old audio and put it together in an alphabetical order where it breaks down and say, Well, you talked about this. It was on this show at this time code. And it's been great. It's it's a great little kind of reference thing. And I think it turned out really well for your show as well. Mindy

Corbett: That's good.

Cale: And now that now Mindy would probably say, now the fan of your podcast, Ken, Yeah. The Jeff B.: The fan, yes. Mindy

Corbett: the fair.

Cale: fan. I we're talking about their the middle. The Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: the the what was his not Brick was the one kid. What was what was the no was Brick was not the little nerd guy, was he? Brick was the No, okay. He had a font cast, remember? Yeah, Mindy

Corbett: Rick was the little guy. Yeah. The older one was Axel. Yeah.

Cale: that's right. So Brick, he was the little the little guy. He had a font he had a font cast. He had a podcast about fonts. And he had a he had a podcast about fonts and he did it on the borrowed computer, the borrowed laptop from school. And Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: his mom was his mom was what's her face from Everybody Loves Raymond, the wife, Patty, what's her face? Okay. Is Jeff B.: okay. Okay.

Cale: yeah, Patricia Eaton. So his mom was hurt, you know, was like, hey, you gotta stop. And he's I can't I can't disappoint the fan. He had he had a fan of the font cast. He had a fan of the font cast. Mindy

Corbett: He had one fan. One fan. Jeff B.: The fan. The fan. Mindy

Corbett: Remember, did we ever find out who the fan was?

Cale: No, no, it was just like it was just like Norm's wife, you know, it was like Vera, you know, we never who knew Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Yeah, the fan. Jeff B.: The fan.

Cale: who the fan was. I I gotta I gotta end on this, Jeff, and then I truly do will let you go. Did you know that John Ratzenberger, he auditioned for Norm? Okay? He auditioned for Norm before George Went did, and he didn't get it. But as he's Jeff B.: Okay. Right. Mm-hmm.

Cale: walking out, he says, Look, I'm gonna shoot my shot. And he said, Hey, do you guys have a character who is the bar know it all? Do you have a guy who sits at the end of the bar and just bullshits about random stuff? And b Charles Burrow or Charles, whichever what it was, said, as a matter of fact, we don't tell us about it. And he sat down and told them about his his dad had a friend at the local, at their local back Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: in the fifties or sixties or whatever it was. And I forget Sarge. The guy's name was Sarge. Jeff B.: Okay.

Cale: So he basically pitched them Sarge. And so they wrote Cliff Claven into the script Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm.

Cale: to thanks to Sarge. And so he the man made his own job for what? For Jeff B.: That's great.

Cale: eleven years, right? And counting. Mindy

Corbett: like that. Jeff B.: That's fantastic.

Cale: Yeah, the man made his own gig. Okay. And I was asking her, I said I don't know enough about the business. Did he did he get a writer's credit for that? Does he get royalties on norm or on Jeff B.: Mm-hmm.

Cale: cliff? Who knows? Mindy

Corbett: I don't know.

Cale: But he made his own job. Jeff B.: Yeah, it's yeah, that's that's really cool. Yeah, that's great. I love those kinds of stories. Those those are always those are my favorites.

Cale: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I couldn't see I Mindy

Corbett: That's cool.

Cale: couldn't see Ratzenberger as norm. I really couldn't, but Claven? Holy crap. I mean pff now I know why. 'Cause he wrote it. You know. Mindy

Corbett: No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they couldn't Jeff B.: No, no. Yeah. Is this? Mindy

Corbett: have, Norm couldn't have been anybody else. But yeah.

Cale: Yeah, Jeff B.: No.

Cale: you it's like hi hi how's life treating Orm like a baby treats a diaper. know that's like okay, on that note, my man, Jeff B.: Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Cale: thank you for being on with us. I'm sure we're gonna have the best ratings. We've we're gonna have the best ratings we've had. You too. Well, Jeff B.: Thank you for having me. It it was great to see both of you. It's been too long. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah, it was fun.

Cale: we're gonna do it more and we'll when we when we get our we we come down to secret to you, I'll wrap on this. We come down to Austin a couple of times a year, but we don't go past Round Rock or Pflugerville or now Elgin 'cause Or Jack and Taylor are now out, they moved out to Elgin. It's it is, this, it's so damn far to go any place in that town these days. You know. Jeff B.: Yeah, it is. It is. Mindy

Corbett: Usually by the time I get there I feel like crap so I don't usually leave Taylor's house.

Cale: By the time we get to Round Rocker Fooderville, we're done. It's like it's crazy. But yeah, they moved to Elgin. It's like, come on, you could you go further? Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Jeff B.: The the it's

Cale: You know, but yeah. Jeff B.: the traffic is not worth it to go Mindy

Corbett: Mm-mm. Jeff B.: almost anywhere in this city.

Cale: Yeah. Jeff B.: I it's the reason why my wife and I we we've turned into early birds just to just so I can avoid traffic in the morning. Mindy

Corbett: Mm-hmm. Jeff B.: That's that's the whole reason is because traffic is so bad in this city.

Cale: Well you d you get up and do your workouts at ungodly hours as well, but that's a whole but that's a good thing. That's that yeah, that protect that keeps Jeff B.: That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: They're on

Cale: you alive. Mindy

Corbett: Wahlberg time. Jeff B.: Yeah. It's

Cale: Now, do me a favor, I want you to be my friend the rest of your life, so keep your shirt on. Don't be like Wahlberg and take your shirt off all the time and you know, yeah, you know. Right? Yeah. Mindy

Corbett: The only thing is shirt off Jeff B.: Yeah.

Cale: Sure. Yeah. All right, brother. Run away before Jeff B.: All right.

Cale: we keep you before we keep you more. All right, we'll edit up that we'll edit that that Miller. All right. You too, man. All right. All right, let me get hit stop Jeff B.: I've had a good time. Thank you so much. It's good to see you again. All right. All right. Mindy

Corbett: Yeah. Give Jessie a hug. All right. Bye.

Cale: here.